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@eknobl Also, the native #TabGroups have been working well for several weeks in :firefox_nightly:, & in my recent testing they also now seem to have become reliable in :firefox: . The whole native #VerticalTabs UI ootb has ridiculous amounts of padding per tab, such that a stupidly small number of tabs can be open before invoking the scrollbar... i fixed this via some #CSS. The one remaining major design paradigm i dislike is that the tab groups are primitive like in Vivaldi & Chromium, ie, only single-level; no hierarchical trees are possible. Hence, even though the new VTs & TGs are aesthetically pleasing & quite usable, i still keep returning to Sidebery.

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

I've loved using the superb AO #Sidebery in my :firefox_nightly: for many years. Nevertheless i have been keeping an eye on the FF Devs' progress with native #VerticalTabs in #FirefoxNightly over the past several months. A couple of days ago i decided to create a new profile [using the new Profile paradigm in Nightly], into which i installed all the same AOs [except ofc not Sidebery this time], copied across all my bookmarks, passwords, form data etc, to basically replicate my familiar browsing setup except this time with the native VTs & #TabGroups.

I've used this new profile instead of my usual Sidebery profile for the past day, to do all my normal browsing, so i can get a good feel for the viability or not of this native paradigm. Sidebery's hierarchical infinitely-nestable tree-structure is vastly superior to any & all simple flat tab-groups paradigms like Vivaldi, Floorp, Zen, & Chromium... & now also Nightly, but i'm trying to be tenacious & tolerate it so i can make it a worthy IRL comparison test.

However what's highly irritating is the profligate waste of vertical space of these native VTs compared to Sidebery; see pic. Multiple times i have launched the Nightly #BrowserToolbox UI & tried to discover the specific css code controlling the huge padding & excessive vertical height of these tabs, so i can drastically reduce it in my #userChromeCSS... but each time it seems to evade me [i'm not very good at this].

Can any actual Devs or otherwise keen FF UI modders please point me to the code in question?

Mozilla has been talking a lot about AI, which I personally don't care much for. Luckily, that doesn't appear to be coming at the cost of Firefox development, because there are a couple of features coming up that I'm pretty excited about! The following are all available in Nightly already.

I sometimes wish apps other than #Safari, such as #Pages, supported #TabGroups so I that could easily switch to a bunch of documents I’m using for a particular project without having to open each of them individually. But then isn’t that what #StageManager is for?

Unfortunately, SM fails to do that because SM window layouts (unlike Safari tab groups) do not persist between logins. I hope #Apple will fix this and make SM genuinely useful in the next version of #macOS, but I’m not holding my breath. #UX #UXFail