Writing Exchange

1 post1 participant0 posts today

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://cloudisland.nz/@ambientspace" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Chris Mills</a> @<a href="https://beige.party/@PixysJourney" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">:neuro: Pixy's Journey :v_bi:</a> Kind of similar here, only that the extra information always goes into the post text itself. That extra information is necessary because I only ever post about extremely obscure topics, and I want people to understand my image posts without having to look anything up themselves. Whenever I post a wholly original image, I even add two image descriptions, a "short" and purely visual one in the alt-text and an extensive one that includes explanations in the post itself. And yes, I write my image descriptions myself by hand. I'm on a desktop computer with a hardware keyboard most of the time. Besides, AI can't nearly do what I do. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://c.im/@JosephMeyer" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Joseph Meyer</a> <blockquote>When you read exceptional alt text, do you ever compliment its author? What is the epitome of alt text, either in general terms or using a specific example?</blockquote> I'd really like to know that myself, also to up my own game further and always stay way ahead of image description quality requirements. I mean, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I've learned a lot about describing images in and for the Fediverse</a> over the last two years. But I guess I can still learn something new, even if I think I already take care of everything, even if the technical possibilities I have here on Hubzilla for describing images surpass those on Mastodon by magnitudes. Maybe, if I learn something new from those who reply, I can weave it into the image descriptions for a series of images that I've been working on since late last year (the descriptions, not the images which are ready to go). <blockquote>Alt text sometimes merely explains what I am viewing; other times it draws my attention to special details in a photo that I would have otherwise missed.</blockquote> I never explain in alt-text. I do always explain a whole lot because I always have to explain a whole lot. For my original images, it takes me over 1,000 characters alone to explain where an image was made. But I only ever give explanations in the long, detailed image descriptions that go into the post text body (in addition to shorter and purely visual descriptions in the alt-texts). Or if there's no additional long image description in the post itself which is the case for my meme posts, I still supply enough explanation in the post text body (still not in the alt-text) for just about everyone in the Fediverse to understand them without having to look anything up themselves. If I can link to external information, e.g. KnowYourMeme for the template I've used, I do so. If I can't, I write the missing explanations right into the post myself. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@DavidM_yeg" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David Mitchell :CApride:</a> <blockquote>Mostly, just imagine you’re telling your friend over the phone about image you’re looking at and what they would need to know.</blockquote> Let's just say I'm a bit critical about that because, in my opinion, it doesn't work in the Fediverse. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/21735784-8443-430a-aa09-e0d9d00a40c2?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 04 Oct 2024 23:30:02 +0200 You can't describe images in Fediverse posts like over the phoneAllegedly, a "good" advice for image descriptions is always to describe images like you'd describe them to someone on a landline phone. Sorry, but that's non-sense. At least for anything that goes significantly beyond a real-life cat photo. If you describe an image through a phone, you describe it to one person. Usually a person whom you know, so you've at least got a rough idea on what they need described. Even more importantly, you can ask that person what they want to know about the image if you don't know. And you get a reply. If you describe an image for a public Fediverse post, you describe it to millions of Fediverse users and billions of Web users. You can't know what they all want, nor can you generalise what they all want. And you can't even ask one of them what they need described before or while describing, much less all of them. In fact, you can't ask at all. And yet, you have to cater to everyone's needs the same and throw no-one under a bus. If I see a realistic chance that someone might be interested in some detail in one of my images, I will describe it. It won't be in the shorter description in the alt-text; instead, it will be in the long description which I've always put directly into the post so far, but whose placement I'm currently reconsidering. If something is unfamiliar enough to enough people that it requires an explanation, I will explain it in the long description. Right now, only meme posts are an exception. They don't need as much of a visual description as long as I stick to the template, and a poll has revealed that people do prefer externally linked third-party explanations over my own ones blowing the character count of the post out of proportion. This is the one time that I can safely assume that I actually know what most people want. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> CC: @<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@monstreline" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monstreline</a> @<a href="https://ohai.social/@i_cannot_today" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Claire (sometimes Carla)</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> New rant/article: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I have learned a lot about describing images according to Mastodon's standards, and I want to share my knowledge, but I haven't learned enough</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://nerdculture.de/@annam" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Anna Maier</a> I don't know what constitutes a "good" example in your opinion, but I've got two examples of how bad AI is at describing images with extremely obscure niche content, much less explaining them. In both cases, I had the <a href="https://llava.hliu.cc/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Large Language and Vision Assistant</a> describe one of my images, always a rendering from within a 3-D virtual world. And then I compared it with a description of the same image of my own. That said, I didn't compare the AI description with my short description in the alt-text. I went all the way and compared it with my long description in the post, tens of thousands of characters long, which includes extensive explanations of things that the average viewer is unlikely to be familiar with. This is what I consider the benchmark. Also, I fed the image at the resolution at which I posted it, 800x533 pixels, to the AI. But I myself didn't describe the image by looking at the image. I described it by looking around in-world. If an AI can't zoom in indefinitely and look around obstacles, and it can't, it's actually a disadvantage on the side of the AI and not an unfair advantage on my side. So without further ado, exhibit A: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/db8f9353-e126-49b2-ad06-87c5e1df8d00" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">This post</a> contains <ul><li>an image with an alt-text that I've written myself (1,064 characters, including only 382 characters of description and 681 characters of explanation where the long description can be found),</li><li>the image description that I had LLaVA generate for me (558 characters)</li><li>my own long and detailed description (25,271 characters)</li></ul>The immediate follow-up comment dissects and reviews LLaVA's description and reveals where LLaVA was too vague, where LLaVA was outright wrong and what LLaVA didn't mention although it should have. If you've got some more time, exhibit B: Technically, all this is in one thread. But for your convenience, I'll link to the individual messages. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Here is the start post</a> with <ul><li>an image with precisely 1,500 characters of alt-text, including 1,402 characters of visual description and 997 characters mentioning the long description in the post, all written by myself</li><li>my own long and detailed image description (60,553 characters)</li></ul> <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/69317442-c4b7-4dc2-beed-38438abfc50a" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Here is the comment with the AI description</a> (1,120 characters; I've asked for a detailed description). <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/451d2f06-7746-4227-a043-76a959420c29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Here is the immediate follow-up comment with my review of the AI description.</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LLaVA" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LLaVA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AIVsHuman" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AIVsHuman</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HumanVsAI" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HumanVsAI</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.online/@sunflowerinrain" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">sunflowerinrain</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.green/@Tarnport" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tarnport</a> From what I've read, a digital photograph is considered the default. So for brevity reasons, it must not be mentioned. Any other media must be mentioned, whether it's a painting, a screenshot from a social media app, a scanned analogue photograph, a flowchart, a CAD blueprint, a 3-D rendering or whatever. But an alt-text must never start with "Image of", "Picture of" or "Photo of". That's considered bad style and a waste of characters and screen-reading time. If the medium is not mentioned, digital photograph falls into its place as a default. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> @<a href="https://sfba.social/@dbloom" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David Bloom</a> Yes. Explanations, or any other information available neither in the image nor in the post text, must never ever go into the alt-text. That's because not everyone can access alt-text. And to those who can't access alt-text, any information exclusively available in alt-text is inaccessible and therefore lost. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@ErikvanStraten" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Erik van Straten</a> <blockquote>I often spend more time writing alt text than the text in the toot itself - not just to keep the toot itself as short as possible.</blockquote> I always spend more time describing my images than writing the post that they go into. For my meme posts, that's because I have to explain the picture and find the appropriate links to external explanations (KnowYourMeme etc.) to shorten my explanation block if possible. For my original images, it's because I have to describe them twice. There's always an alt-text which, as of late, fills the 1,500-character limit imposed by Mastodon, Misskey etc. to the brim. But that alt-text is only a shortened and slightly adapted version of an extremely long long description which goes into the post text body and which also includes transcripts of any and all text in the image, readable or not, as well as all explanations which I deem necessary for outsiders to understand the image. Since the images are about an extremely obscure niche topic, this means I have to explain a lot. A while ago, I spent two full days, morning to evening, researching for and describing and explaining one single image. The result was <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">probably the longest image description ever posted in the Fediverse</a>. And I actually had to limit myself, otherwise the description would have been even vastly longer and taken over a month to complete. Good thing I don't have any character limit to worry about. The only exception is that Mastodon may reject posts from outside with over 100,000 characters. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter RowlandI'd really like to do some virtual "photo-blogging" with multiple in-world pictures in each post, especially now that so many Christmas-themed and winter-themed sims are online. But that's completely out of question if it takes me two days or more to adequately describe one measly image. Adequate image descriptions are increasingly becoming mandatory in posts that may end up on Mastodon. I guess that even applies to Hubzilla articles although they don't federate through the Fediverse, simply because they're on Hubzilla, and Hubzilla is part of the Fediverse. (That said, articles have the advantage over posts of not being butchered by Mastodon's HTML sanitiser.) I do have a (streams) channel for in-world picture posts, but (streams) doesn't have articles, and so it kind of limits me to the maximum of four images per post that Mastodon allows. Also, I've yet to find a way and a place to add long descriptions for images in posts in which the images are embedded within the text rather than at the end. Mind you, I'm not talking about the alt-text; I know where it goes. I'm talking about the long image descriptions which all my original in-world images get. Something that has grown up to 60,000 characters in length for one single image in the past. So far, I've always added the long descriptions to the post itself. It's fairly easy to do if there's only one image, and it follows the actual post text with no more post text following the image. In that case, I simply add the long description after the image. If there are multiple images, that's when things get tricky. I've tried adding each description right after the corresponding image for three images. I only had a wee little bit of actual post at the very beginning in this case. Still, there are over 37,000 characters of image description between the first and the second image. If Mastodon supported embedded images, hardly anyone would ever even scrolled down to the second image, much less the third one. What seems to have worked better was what I did here and here with two images: First the post text, then the images, then the common image description preamble, then the individual image description parts for each image. The major downside is that there's a lot of text between each image and its corresponding description. And still, the actual post text is above the first image in its entirety. Especially the third link leads to an image post in which I've "cheated" by reducing the surroundings to a minimum and the necessary image-describing effort along with them. It still took me eight hours to describe and explain both images, not including the alt-texts distilled from the long descriptions. And I still ended up with over 20,000 characters for the whole image description block. Virtual photo-blogging would be something else. It'd show much, much more surroundings, probably more than in the first image post I've linked to. And it'd mean four images per post. Even if I didn't describe, explain or transcribe anything more than once, describing four images with a lot of landscape and decoration in them at sufficient levels of detail would take me well over a week, mornings to evenings, provided I can actually dedicate such a big chunk of time to nothing but describing images. Also, the resulting image descriptions would be so massive that if I put them into the post, the post probably wouldn't go anywhere but Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) because it'd simply be too long. Mastodon, where accurate and adequately detailed image descriptions are a must, rejects all post over 100,000 characters as far as I know, and my post would exceed this limit. Pleroma and Akkoma have a lower limit, and I guess Misskey and its forks have even lower limits. A while ago, someone suggested to me that I could upload the long descriptions someplace else and then link to them in my posts. That'd shorten and clean up the posts immensely, and it'd work with images embedded in-between sections of post text. I've actually toyed with the idea and how to carry it out without having to rely on anything outside of Hubzilla. Ultimately, I've pretty much nixed it. Not only because it's untested and unreliable, but mostly because every image description except for the first would grow tremendously in length. That's because all information that's relevant for all four images would have to be in all four image descriptions. If I have four image description files, each one with its own link below the corresponding image, I can't count on everyone opening the first description first, then the second description and so forth. But if someone only opens the description for the third or the fourth image, I want them to have all relevant information regardless without sending them to the previous descriptions. Granted, it's probably more inconvenient for the readers than for me. If I need something four times, I can copy-paste it three times. The readers, on the other hand, have to endure largely the same unprecedentedly massive infodump up to four times over in one post. Even more often if a photoblog post continues in comments or other posts to include more than four images. Still, not only do the readers have to deal with a whole lot of information to be able to fully understand my images, but I have to research and write it in the first place. Three or four photo-blogging posts with four images each, and I won't get to do anything else than describe images for a solid month. Lastly, I'm not going to cut down the detail level of my image descriptions any further. I know that at least some people enjoy them. And I've hardly ever been criticised by sighted people and never by blind or visually-impaired people, let alone sanctioned by Mastodon's alt-text police, for writing too long and/or too detailed image descriptions. Maybe the alt-text police has yet to notice my image posts. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://techhub.social/@negative12dollarbill" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Negative12DollarBill</a> I'm kind of missing the option that factuality doesn't matter as long as the alt-text is entertaining. I think not exactly few blind or visually-impaired people think this way. Anyway, I'll stick with facts. It's hard enough for me to describe images factually and then distill my long descriptions down to a size that fits into alt-text. I don't want to be required to add whimsy, especially not in the alt-text itself where I simply don't have any room for whimsy. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://cosocial.ca/@cogdog" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alan Levine</a> Judging by the advice I've read so far, it's always best to describe the colour using basic colours plus attributes such as brightness, saturation and what other basic colour or colours the colour you describe is leaning towards. For example, "light, yellowish orange", "a darker, slightly less saturated, slightly more brownish tone of orange", "various shades of slightly yellowish, medium-light-to-medium brown", "a solid, slightly pale medium blue with a minimal hint of green", "a medium-dark wood texture, slightly reddish, slightly greyish". All actually used by me in the long descriptions in (content warning: eye contact) <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this image post</a>. If the name of the colour plays a role, use it and then describe the colour in the same way as above. Blind or visually-impaired people may not know what Prussian blue or Burgundy red looks like. @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.art/@FrostPoem" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">❄️Faerie❄️</a> @<a href="https://awscommunity.social/@cobalt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">cobalt</a> @<a href="https://tweesecake.social/@BlindQuilter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tanya McGee Wheatley 💜🥰</a> What do you say, is that appropriate, complete overkill or still insufficient? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://dice.camp/@Alien_Sunset" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alien_Sunset</a> <blockquote>Making editing posts and alt text easier is a thing that could be done.</blockquote> But you'll still never be able to edit a Friendica or Hubzilla post from Mastodon. They're too different. Trust me, I know, I've been using both for longer than Mastodon has even been around. Let's push Hubzilla's massive permissions system that wouldn't let you at Hubzilla content anyway aside. First of all, Friendica and Hubzilla handle images completely differently from Mastodon. On Mastodon, an image is a file attached to a post, and there can only be four of these. Each image has its own dedicated text field for alt-text. On Friendica and Hubzilla, an image is a file uploaded to the file space that's part of each Friendica account and Hubzilla channel and then embedded into the post inline as a hotlink. With text above the image and text below the image. Like a blog post. And there can be as many images as you want. There's no alt-text data field either. Alt-text is part of the image-embedding markup code. All this has been the way it is since July, 2010, when Friendica was launched, five and a half years before the very first Mastodon alpha version. And Hubzilla is older than Mastodon, too. So if you want to add alt-text to an image in a post from Friendica or Hubzilla, you inevitably have to edit the post itself. You have to get your hands dirty on raw BBcode with software-specific additions in an editor box that has zero support for any kind of text formatting or markup code. You have to figure out what in the code of a post or a comment corresponds to which image to which you want to add alt-text. You have to turn this... <code>[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photos/jupiter_rowland/image/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295][zmg=800x533]https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photo/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295-2.jpg[/zmg][/zrl]</code> ...into this... <code>[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photos/jupiter_rowland/image/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295][zmg=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photo/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295-2.jpg]Digital shaded rendering of the main building of the Universal Campus, a downloadable island location for 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. The camera position is about three metres or ten feet above the ground. The camera is tilted slightly upward and rotated slightly to the left from the building's longitudinal axis. The futuristic building is over 200 metres long, stretching far into the distance, and its front is about 50 metres wide. Its structure is mostly textured to resemble brushed stainless steel, and almost everything in-between is grey tinted glass. The main entrance of the building in the middle of the front has two pairs of glass doors. They are surrounded by a massive complex geometrical structure, very roughly reminiscent of a vintage video game spacecraft with the front facing upward. Four huge cylindrical pillars carry the roof end, the outer two of which extend beyond it. All are tilted away from the landing area in front of the building and at the same time outward to the sides. The sides of the building are slightly tilted themselves. In the distance, a large geodesic dome rises from the building. There is a large circular area in front of the main entrance as well as several wide paths. They have light concrete textures, and they are lined with low walls with almost white concrete textures. Furthermore, various shrubs and trees decorate the scenery.[/zmg][/zrl]</code> ...all with no WYSIWYG, no documentation at hand, no preview because Mastodon doesn't have a preview button and an editor that may not even support over 500 characters (Friendica and Hubzilla both have no character limits). And this only covers the UI side. I haven't even talked about what'd have to happen in the background yet. Again, all this is assuming that Hubzilla lets Mastodon users edit posts in the first place. Which it won't. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://dice.camp/@Alien_Sunset" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alien_Sunset</a> Still, it's a suggestion that keeps popping up from the many Mastodon-only bubbles in the Fediverse. And it's being cheered and applauded. For the record, I'm not an alt-text opponent myself. Rather, I put huge efforts into describing and explaining my images at levels I deem sufficient even for random strangers who happen upon my image posts without knowing anything about the subject. @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> can probably confirm it. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Stefan BohacekAre there any fediverse servers where alt text is mandatory?<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#accessibility</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/MastoAdmin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#MastoAdmin</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/FediAdmin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#FediAdmin</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.online/@darrell73" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡</a> I think that's part of the issue, even if it's unavoidable: There's no one way to please everyone. And the more niche and special your content is, the harder it becomes to please as many disabled people as possible. There's a saying: "<a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e506e18-13c5-4bfb-aea9-c626e96a619c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Nothing about us without us</a>." Don't assume what disabled people may need. Ask them. Talk to them. Listen to them. But I guess the attitude in the Fediverse is that everything is said, everything is defined, everything is set in stone, and it'll work in 100% of all cases. No need to talk about it. You're expected to know it. Just do it. I mean, I could just carry on assuming, based on what I've read here and there, even if that's technically the wrong thing. I know that there are at least some people who enjoy what I do, for whom it may be helpful. I could just go on doing that and improving that, for any definition of improving. I could go on until enough people complain to me that I'm doing it completely wrong, and that staggering level of detail is bad for magnitudes more people than it helps. But this is unlikely to happen, seeing as how little feedback I receive. I mean, at the end of the day, I can't really know whom I describe my images for. Do blind or visually impaired users even come across my image posts, seeing as they come from two different channels than this one now? Do those come across my image posts who demand sanctions for everyone who doesn't describe their images sufficiently? Are my extensive image descriptions and explanations useful for anyone? Still, I go on putting huge efforts into describing them for the random stranger who stumbles upon one of them on some federated timeline, regardless of whether they're visually-impaired, blessed with a terribly slow Internet connection or a fully sighted alt-text enforcer. And I will most likely go on increasing my efforts where I can. I'm currently polishing my way of describing persons or rather avatars. After all, I can see the alt-text quality requirements in the Fediverse be constantly raised, too. I need to stay ahead of them. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter RowlandApparently, accessibility is not about trying as hard as you can. It has to be about trying exactly the right amount of hard without even knowing what the right amount is because the right amount is different for everyone. For the record: I refuse to post any image without sufficient description. And "sufficient description" may mean two descriptions, a short (and still long) one in the alt-text, a massive one in the post. If I can't describe it properly, I don't post it. And I'm trying to up my game and add new tricks and new elements to my descriptions. On the one hand, disabled people demand being involved in the topic of accessibility. Before you do something, consult with those whom you want to help. Don't just simply assume what they may need. Ask them. Discuss things with them. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e506e18-13c5-4bfb-aea9-c626e96a619c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I've written an article on this topic.</a> On the other hand, apparently, asking too much will get you branded ableist, all the way to your home instance with over users being on the brink of a fediblock. Here's a comment I've written on <a href="https://wandering.shop/users/AlinaLeonova/statuses/113605362051803660" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this poll thread</a> by @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a>. I've directed it to a blind user whom I may have asked once too much. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 15:59:44 +0100 @<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions? Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me. And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate. But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is. And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters. CC: @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://piaille.fr/@shtrom" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Olivier Mehani</a> @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> Here is his reply in which he claims I'm an ableist who actually doesn't want to describe images. This is far from the truth. <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter/113607604108734988" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 20:47:46 +0100 You really don't think I remember you do you? You ask this question every single time in an attempt to badger users like me into getting away with *not* providing alt text because you wanna be ableist but try to pass it off as perfectionist. You will *never* please everybody, so to even try and to even is patronizing and ableist all by itself. I consider you to be nothing more than a troll. Look dude, if you don't wanna provide alt text then don't fucking provide it, but don't insult my intelligence with this obvious C lion tactic of I'm a perfectionist. I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again. <a href="https://caneandable.social/tags/AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> Here is my reply. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/2b641086-2539-4dc3-b18e-6583b4a4f7d4?f=&zid=writing.exchange%40writing.exchange" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:37:27 +0100 @<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> <blockquote>I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again.</blockquote> If I didn't care for accessibility, if I didn't want to describe my images, why would I want to satisfy everyone, all the way to random strangers who stumble upon my posts in some federated timeline? I shouldn't even want to satisfy anyone! Why would I spend literal days, morning to evening, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">describing one image in all details</a>? Twice per image? Why would I refuse to even take pictures, let alone post them, if they'll be too difficult to describe in a way that I consider sufficient? Why would I pick up any advice on how to describe certain things, like people or colours, and consider any of my image descriptions that don't have this incorporated hopelessly outdated? Why would I transcribe text that's too small for sighted people to read, just because all text in an image has to be described? Why would I feel bad about text that I couldn't transcribe and then try to find a source for that piece of text? And yes, I do. Why would I be literally the only one in the entire Fediverse who tries to tell people that and why explanations don't go into the alt-text because people with certain disabilities can't access alt-text, and any information that's only available in alt-text is lost to them? And why would I warn sensitive people about eyes or food that's in the image on a microscopic sub-pixel level if I didn't care? And yes, I actually did that. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">In my post with my second-longest image description</a>. Just because I don't just simply shut up and describe my images exactly on point like you personally want them described, doesn't justify insulting me as an ableist. CC: @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableism</a> In the meantime, he wrote and sent this post in which he called for a fediblock of either my channel or the entirety of hub.netzgemeinde.eu, the biggest Hubzilla instance. <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter/113607848031668067" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:49:48 +0100 Link at end. I'm unsure if <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> is on his own instance, but <a href="https://caneandable.social/tags/Fediblock" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Fediblock</a> for concerned trolling and ableist behavior by being patronizing to disabled people about alt text. I can't find others on his instance, but every, single time, the person posts the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, and expects disabled people to tell this person because you can't describe every thing in an image you don't have to do alt text. Or maybe my temper is just short today, but here's the question. This isn't genuine curiocity because he asks the, same, question, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. No answer is to his satisfaction. Nobdoy waste your time with this obnoxious troll. If it turns out I am lashing out of anger and have misjudged, will delete the post but <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4cd5e3e2-b43f-4ba3-8195-1c7590989940</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediblockMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediblockMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> <blockquote>I should have blocked you the first 900 times you asked this fucking obtuse/C lioning/ ableist / patronizing question. If you don't wanna provide alt text, just don't do it and never ask me this question again.</blockquote> If I didn't care for accessibility, if I didn't want to describe my images, why would I want to satisfy everyone, all the way to random strangers who stumble upon my posts in some federated timeline? I shouldn't even want to satisfy anyone! Why would I spend literal days, morning to evening, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">describing one image in all details</a>? Twice per image? Why would I refuse to even take pictures, let alone post them, if they'll be too difficult to describe in a way that I consider sufficient? Why would I pick up any advice on how to describe certain things, like people or colours, and consider any of my image descriptions that don't have this incorporated hopelessly outdated? Why would I transcribe text that's too small for sighted people to read, just because all text in an image has to be described? Why would I feel bad about text that I couldn't transcribe and then try to find a source for that piece of text? And yes, I do. Why would I be literally the only one in the entire Fediverse who tries to tell people that and why explanations don't go into the alt-text because people with certain disabilities can't access alt-text, and any information that's only available in alt-text is lost to them? And why would I warn sensitive people about eyes or food that's in the image on a microscopic sub-pixel level if I didn't care? And yes, I actually did that. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">In my post with my second-longest image description</a>. Just because I don't just simply shut up and describe my images exactly on point like you personally want them described, doesn't justify insulting me as an ableist. CC: @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableism</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions? Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me. And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate. But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is. And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters. CC: @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://piaille.fr/@shtrom" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Olivier Mehani</a> @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Alt Text Hall of FameSomeone once posted a short study on the quality of alt text of images posted here, not just whether it's present. Does this ring any bells? Can't seem to find it anymore.<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#accessibility</a>

Stefan BohacekI find myself having to search through my old and bookmarked posts when the topic of alt text on social media comes up, so I'm just going to put some of the relevant polls I've posted over the past few months here on my blog.<a href="https://stefanbohacek.com/blog/polls-about-alt-text-on-social-media/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://stefanbohacek.com/blog/polls-about-alt-text-on-social-media/</a><a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#AltText</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/SocialMedia" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#SocialMedia</a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/ImageDescriptions" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ImageDescriptions</a>

Recent searches

Search options

Administered by:

Server stats:

#imagedescriptions