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@futurebird So tell me, she who knows, I've got some bugs coming up in the next section of my series of novellas. What's a good documentary on ant behaviour, possibly bees, for me to steal some cool bits for my alien bugs? My characters will be literally crawling into the nest, so I need a good primer. A lecture recorded at a university might also work.
I'm so glad you asked. These are general overviews of some of the most famous kinds of ants that everyone should know about.
The Wood Ant Supercolony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXKn1f5yVe0
Atta Cephalotes: The Leafcutter Ants, Ants who Farm Fungi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n0SkIGARuo
Weaver Ants (Ants who live in trees and make silk nests)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSmM3fVHwQQ
Army Ants (Ants that inspired horror stories)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prwdLQi2LFQ
Bull Ants (one of the largest ants)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vRRYsVUkwU
The most common error I've seen in #scifi representations of social insects is a deep misunderstanding about the role of the queen and the nature of the "hive mind" (such as it is)
1. Queen ants are not rulers, they are more like ovaries. The colony is like a body every cell is important.
2. Ants are individuals and do whatever they want. It just so happens that what they want is for the colony to thrive, but they can get in 'arguments' about HOW to do that most efficiently.
@futurebird Oh, now that's the good stuff. A deliberate misinterpretation by one faction within the society will have created a false worship of the insectoid social structure. Discovering the reality of that by being forced to traverse the nest because *spoilers* they discover more accurately how it works. Love it. That'll definitely work in my story.
but crucially there is absolutely no analogy here to a mother ant and her brood, really quite the polar opposite the more i think about it
while a mother ant's workers are her children with immediate, obvious, undeniable family ties to each other and any cohesion is as material and natural and emergent as it gets
(related: the notes about cohesion on this article https://acoup.blog/202...)
so the trope of this happening with the queen of a eusocial animal nest is not only bad, it's "exactly the opposite of good" level bad, and likely a strong projection from writers more used to (to the point of being unable to critically examine) more alienated, hierarchical social structures
My least favorite scifi social insect trope is the one where they kill the queen then the whole colony dies or falls apart.
I've written a bit about what happens when the queen dies in real ant colonies here:
https://www.tumblr.com/futurebird/687923061354364928/the-queen-is-dead?source=share
@futurebird @golgaloth Such a beautiful article 
@futurebird@sauropods.win @golgaloth@writing.exchange if you're into insect-adjacent scifi I highly recommend the award winning series "Children of time" by Adrian Tchaikovsky
It's about ants, and spiders, and insects... and what I would lovingly refer to as "space Australia on an arc ship"
very enjoyable and well researched novel, the insect/spider scifi aspects are grounded in reality and it shows
@froge @futurebird Thanks. I'm looking for a new book at the moment, so I'll definitely check it out.
@golgaloth @froge @futurebird
There's also Derin Edala on paetron. The wandering star series.
It's a running joke that every few weeks someone on here recommends that I read "Children of time" by Adrian Tchaikovsky (every single person who has done this has turned out to be basically awesome and super interesting, so welcome to the exclusive club.)
But also? Thanks a lot for forcing me to reset the timer again. 
@futurebird @froge @golgaloth I would recommend that book, but I don’t want to upset the timer. 
@futurebird @froge @golgaloth did you check the Doors of Heaven? Every other chapter is about an alternate universe where a different species evolved to rule the Earth. His last two books are also about other forms of life that are very different from anything we know (sorry, can't elaborate without massive spoilers)
@ehproque @futurebird @froge @golgaloth I can't find any sci-fi book by that name, who's the author?
@ntraft @futurebird @froge @golgaloth it's Adrian Tchaikovsky
In spite of seeing the counter reset several times, I haven't seen you say if you've actually read the books or not! If so, did you enjoy them? If not, what do we need to get the counter to for you to try them?
@futurebird @froge @golgaloth how often do folks mention “A Deepness in the Sky” by Vernor Vinge (one of my faves)?
That's really interesting and cool! I would have thought they're more like bees where a new queen emerges when the old one dies (or when the hive gets too big and it's time to swarm).
@futurebird @golgaloth I loved reading this, and found it both informational and very touching!
@futurebird @golgaloth this makes me wonder, is there any hierarchy within an ant colony? Do ants give each other orders, or is it all suggestions and individual agreement?
From my observations sometimes a particular ant will take the lead in some project such as moving to a new nest. You see one particular ant get very excited, she will lead others to the new location. She will drag them by the mandible if they don't follow, even pick them up and carry them. She will pick up a larvae, leave it half-way there: forcing another ant to complete the job. But, as the process accelerates more ants start being pushy like her and then they all move.
I'd call that taking the lead and giving orders to some degree, but I think it's just a function of how excited the ant is about the colony being in the new nest vs. the old. I don't know that it would always be the same ants getting bossy and pushy like that.
I have noticed that majors (the larger ants who do nest defending) and queens are NEVER the ants who become pushy. It's nearly always median workers. I think because they explore and have more information.
You can almost hear these ants going "let's go! let's go! let's go!" They are so excited about the nest move and almost so active that it seems like they will make everyone move if they have to carry the entire colony themselves.
Similar things happen when one ant discovers an exciting food source. She starts whipping everyone up to help collect it.
@futurebird @golgaloth if you ever put a paint dot on a pushy ant, I would be fascinated to know if it's the same one or if everyone gets a turn. Ahhh so cool!
@futurebird @golgaloth what a fascinating form of consensus building and dragging along other ants to join the action. That is so cool. Thank you!! I will be thinking about this for a long time.
@futurebird @golgaloth I particularly liked a certain book that I’m reluctant to name for spoiler reasons because it uses this trope well and sets up a nice twist around it.
@futurebird @golgaloth Do keep in mind of course that ants aren't capable of "wanting" anything or reflecting on what they're doing. They're robots blindly carrying out a program created by a million iterations of selection. The question is whether an ant colony as a whole can have a distributed meta-consciousness. Now for organisms where individuals have larger brains (naked mole rats?) then you start blurring the lines between a hive and a society.
@futurebird @golgaloth CJ Cherryh writes great aliens as she’s interested in how different minds work. Serpents Reach is a novel that has four ant like hives. I can’t speak on any relationship to real insect behaviour but I found it fascinating because the humans’ lack of comprehension of the alien insects’ thinking, comms & social structures caused failure to predict how they reacted to the human interference - over time. Read it a long time ago now. Prob. you’ve heard of it already tho.
@futurebird Wait, wait. So ants harvest resin from trees to piss on an make their own anti-biotics which they use to treat diseases within the nests? Holy shit.
@golgaloth @futurebird you may also take a look at termites, they are eusocial cockroaches basically and they have a king and a queen. This makes me think about how many bees and wasps are not eusocial but solitary creatures, maybe you can play around by adding similar species to those you want to create, but with really different biology and behavior, and the confusion and dangers this situation may bring to characters.
@golgaloth @futurebird I thouyght this was some elaborate nest of seaguls... all the whiet bits on the picture were seaguls to me... :D
One thing I like in #CJCherryh's "Serpent's Reach" was the idea that each majat (space ant) was an individual, but each time two majat meet they "take taste", i.e. exchange saliva, which updates their memories to be identical.
@cptbutton @golgaloth @futurebird Did that lead to funny conclusions if they saw two humans kiss?
P.S.: making a note to read C.J. Cherryh's stuff.
@Illuminatus @cptbutton @golgaloth
Humans kissing might also have roots in food sharing, the way that people used to chew food for babies when weaning them before we got all weird about that process.
@Illuminatus @cptbutton @golgaloth
The weaning food chewing thing kind of grosses me out. But, it makes so much sense... what are you going to do sitting in a cave? Give a baby a carrot? Invent the food processor?
@futurebird @Illuminatus @golgaloth
Probably shouldn't mention birds where the parent feeds the babies by puking into their mouths...
@cptbutton @futurebird @Illuminatus @golgaloth
It comes from the crop, not the stomach, so it's not really any worse than chewing IMO.
@Illuminatus @golgaloth @futurebird
I don't recall that coming up, but there is some very tense stuff when she is teaching her azi (enslaved test tube baby) how to get on with majat, because you have to let them "kiss" you. Which also puts your head where they could easily decapitate you with their mandibles.
@Illuminatus @cptbutton @futurebird You should definitely read Serpents Reach if you want some genuinely alien aliens. Excellent book.