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@danielquinn @alxd

what is your critique of Terra Nil as not solarpunk? I haven't played it, but the descriptions seem to fit the bill in some key areas

@amici @alxd oh it's a beautiful game, but as alxd points out, there aren't any people in it, so it can't really qualify as a social thing.

@danielquinn @alxd

I suppose. Though in their defense, it's very costly to develop games with people in it. The complexity of human behaviour and animation etc. is expensive to do right. Much easier to spin around wind turbin blades

@amici @danielquinn as someone working in games, no :P

Just create a level with a static city tile and some fun mechanic for it interacting with the environment. Even half-assed changes the game's message

@alxd @danielquinn

As someone who has been in indie game development, yes!

Unless you're straight up recycling from other games etc., humanoid characters are a mess to deal with. I don't know what kind of game development you're doing if you think it's that easy to do well, but I'd be skeptical of it.

@amici @danielquinn why have any humanoid characters? The game operates on a lot of symbols, why not create a single city tile and recycle it? Doesn't need to be animated outside of blinking light in the windows.

@alxd @danielquinn

and what do you achieve with that exactly? decor?

@amici @danielquinn say that the city tile changes how your ecosystems work and create a new kind of ecosystem around it, so you need to green this level in appropriate stages. I dont remember a lot of specific mechanics of Terra Nil, I'm just saying that you dont need to redesign half of the game to make a statement about humans living next to the greened ecosystems!

You could even have a domed city tile that loses its dome once you green the map enough.

@alxd @danielquinn

okay, fair enough

@amici @danielquinn I do not mean to dismiss your points anywhere, it is hard to animate and emulate humans.

That's why the art of design lies in finding shortcuts and deciding what to handwave.

I like telling stories, those usually require one mechanic and a lot of accents which change the meaning.

Exocolonist did that really, really well.

@alxd @amici @danielquinn

I would cosign the attitude that a lack of people is a shortcoming.

It might be great even so. But if you're picking out the crème de la crème to showcase solarpunk fundamentals, I would try to prioritize games with social values if possible.

@alxd @amici @danielquinn

Also, though: to draft a starter pack, I'd suggest:

1) Start by excluding nothing
2) Rank everything
3) Let folks pick their top 5 or 8 or 10, possibly broken out into categories like "Interactive", "Visual", "Grounded", "Fantasy", etc.

Then we have starter packs for major tastes.

@FullyAutomatedRPG @alxd @danielquinn

Let's not ask for so much that the starter pack becomes a total chore to do, and nobody does it.

Just get something good together that is not all the same format and not all the same kind of message, but features the variety of solarpunk as well.

The objective is ensure that a person has a grasp on solarpunk that is not too narrow with regard to format, topics, and perspective, but that we open them up to the diversity of the movement.

@FullyAutomatedRPG @alxd @danielquinn

Also, you can have multiple starter packs. It's just that right now, there doesn't seem to be any dedicated starter pack. At least not of the kind I'm talking about. Just some starter suggestions in a blog post here and there. Nothing carefully designed to introduce people who have limited time and energy.

@amici @danielquinn I never said Terra Nil needs any of these! I just said it needs a city tile ;)